More armor. (Salvaged from that horrible 15k thread.)

[007Bistromath]

Edit by PieXags: Don't quote and respond to posts from other threads, especially if they've been locked.

There is no good reason why energy comes from tattoos or whatever else. Of course, I can already hear people screeching that this break with realism would ruin immersion. "Do you think in real life you could just wear a paper hat and have it work like a kevlar helmet? Wah wah wah!"

Stow it. It wrecks my immersion alot more (though it's tenuous and insignificant in the first place, this being a competitive game) when I look at my charcter and think "ugh. This looks ridiculous. Why am I wearing this garbage?" and the answer is "Because it gives me +5 energy."

The solution is pretty clear. I suggest we have it so that appearance and stats separate. Include duplicate sets at armor crafters for the pve dudes. Let pvp players choose the style of the armor on the page where they pick their face, and the stats of the armor on the page where they pick everything else. Everybody's hugging!

[Vilaptca]

Um...I understand what you are saying...but its a bad idea.

I'm having a hard time trying to explain it, so forgive me at how short this reply is going to be, I keep deleting what I'm typing. As soon as I t hink I start saying what I'm trying to explain, I reread it and it makes no sense.

But this suggestion really makes no sense either. Its just pointless. It would hurt the game more than help it. It does make sense that tattoos have less armor, maybe more energy. It makes sense that a monk wearing Censors has more armor, because he has a very thick armor on and it also gives him that boost versus physical for the same reason. It all makes sense. What you're suggesting makes no sense at all.

Anyways, what every thread about more armor keeps forgetting is that in a few months we'll have so much more armor coming with the expansion that a silly suggestion like this will be pointless. You're problem is you don't like how glads looks, but you want that extra energy. Well...since we are getting new armor in Chapter 2, I would imagine that they would add a few of our armors, or at least their stats for the Chapter 2 people. Otherwise, Chapter 1 players could have some nice advantage with their Glads armor or their Ascalon armor.

Just wait until Factions comes out, and if you still have a problem with how your armor looks, propose something. Just don't propose this again...

[generik]

If you like to PvP so much, nobody else is going to look at your armor and obsess over it after killing 1000 newbies just like you.

/idea

[007Bistromath]

Originally Posted by Vilaptca

But this suggestion really makes no sense either. Its just pointless. It would hurt the game more than help it. It does make sense that tattoos have less armor, maybe more energy. It makes sense that a monk wearing Censors has more armor, because he has a very thick armor on and it also gives him that boost versus physical for the same reason. It all makes sense.

I don't doubt it. My point is that it doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, because it is still stupid. Realism is not the same thing as immersion, and neither realism nor immersion are in any way significant to the working of this game in either pve or pvp, because like it or not, GW is not in any way, shape, or form a real RPG. I don't play this to roleplay, I don't know anybody else who plays this to roleplay, and anybody who does play this to roleplay should've bought something else, because there are many titles out there for which immersion is the focus, and the setting isn't a paper-thin veil of meaningless errands and terrible voice acting. I want my characters to do two things: work right, and look good doing it. Therefore, realism in my armor is nothing more than an aggravating detail. This game has magic in it. Why can't we just say that the tattoos or breastplates or tuxedos or whatever just magically have the attributes we want them to?

And honestly, if it bothers you so much that the armor doesn't act like real armor, you can just keep right on taking tats instead of shirts and leave me alone.

Anyways, what every thread about more armor keeps forgetting is that in a few months we'll have so much more armor coming with the expansion that a silly suggestion like this will be pointless.

Yeah, point taken, but that's only if we're talking about new armor appearances. I'm talking about divorcing the old appearances from their stats. Although some new armor period would also be nice. Hopefully they hired somebody else to do the new stuff.

[Vilaptca]

Sorry, apparently three letters ruined my whole point...RPG...

Its a label. Every silly fantasy game, whether it has dwarf or dragons, or just a knight that has a magic sword is labelled an RPG. GW has and always will be labelled one as well.

This is still an incredibly silly suggestion, and you really have no vaild points in it. The whole reasoning behind you wanting this, is that you don't like how Glads looks, but you want to still get the +5 energy. Its really too bad for you type of thing. I don't like how Glads looks, so I made a RP character and went and bought 15k glads. I'm quite happy. Anyone else can do the same.

Since you got my last point, I'm going to be done.

Have a nice day, and I think every PvP player would like for Factions to have a better looking armor with the same stats as Glads.

[PieXags]

Alright, alright. I really don't like having to sit here and read through all this sort of thing to try and figure out whether or not the post actually has anything to do with the OP's suggestion, so please try to save me the trouble of having to do so and just discuss the suggestion in every one of your posts. Don't drag THIS thread and suggestion into the dirt by discussing RPGs now. I'm keeping tabs on this.

Moderator aside...No I don't think they should implement this idea. Being able to recognize armor sets for their qualities can be a good thing and a somewhat valuable bit of information to have in PvP. I don't disagree because it takes away from the realism, I just don't think it'd be logical. Something like this if it were implemented should obviously apply to PvE and PvP players and it'd just be awkward to go out, and spend so much money on how an armor set looks only to then have to choose it's qualities. It's perfectly reasonable how it is right now.

[007Bistromath]

I argued the RPG point for a reason: since realism, immersion, and even logic all amount to the same argument with regard to armor appearance being functional, showing that those qualities are not largely relevant supports my position.

Originally Posted by PieXags

Moderator aside...No I don't think they should implement this idea. Being able to recognize armor sets for their qualities can be a good thing and a somewhat valuable bit of information to have in PvP.

You would think that, but it's not. For one thing, the stats aren't different enough for it to matter to anyone but the player themselves. You can't tell how much energy a given opponent has left, so it is irrelevant to you how much they start out with, and that is the only thing armor does which is relevant to you as an opponent. Knowing that Warrior X has those 3 sec knockdown gloves doesn't stop you from being knocked down by him, and knowing that Ranger Y has the set which counters your element doesn't make you want to target him any less since he already has too much armor. Besides that, there's still the fact that anybody with any sense takes pieces from many different sets unless they're trying to twink their energy as high as it can go. Even if somebody having somesuch set of armor did matter, it still doesn't matter, because they have two other sets of armor, too. If the stats on the current armor sets were a much more significant factor on targetting strategy, I would agree that the system shouldn't be changed. As it is, it simply doesn't matter.

Something like this if it were implemented should obviously apply to PvE and PvP players and it'd just be awkward to go out, and spend so much money on how an armor set looks only to then have to choose it's qualities.

Are you trying to say that it would be some grievous inconvenience to choose from a longer list of armor sets? I can't make sense of this at all.

[Manic Smile]

search...search...search...search...old

[PieXags]

Originally Posted by 007Bistromath

You would think that, but it's not. For one thing, the stats aren't different enough for it to matter to anyone but the player themselves. You can't tell how much energy a given opponent has left, so it is irrelevant to you how much they start out with, and that is the only thing armor does which is relevant to you as an opponent. Knowing that Warrior X has those 3 sec knockdown gloves doesn't stop you from being knocked down by him, and knowing that Ranger Y has the set which counters your element doesn't make you want to target him any less since he already has too much armor. Besides that, there's still the fact that anybody with any sense takes pieces from many different sets unless they're trying to twink their energy as high as it can go. Even if somebody having somesuch set of armor did matter, it still doesn't matter, because they have two other sets of armor, too.

As it is, it simply doesn't matter.Are you trying to say that it would be some grievous inconvenience to choose from a longer list of armor sets? I can't make sense of this at all.

I didn't say it matters because I THOUGHT it mattered, I'm saying it's useful to know what sort of armor someone's got in PvP because it IS. I like to know if the guy I'm attacking with piercing damage has an extra boost against it, I want to know if holy damage will do more to that necro than the other one, I want to know if the water damage I'm throwing out is being weakened by the armor he's wearing, etc. It can be quite helpful to know what works better against your enemies, and knowing the armor can help.

And no, I'm not saying it would be an inconvenience to choose from a longer list of armor sets, I'm saying it would be silly and unreasonable to change the current system to where armor sort is not related to the armor someone's wearing (along with that, how it looks). What would happen if they changed it? Would every single person in PvE magically get to choose the stats of the armor they worked for and bought already? That seems pretty stupid to me. Would I be annoyed that I crafted the materials for and bought an armor set I didn't like the look of because I wanted it's stats, and that it would now be no different from the stats of the armor I did like the look of? You bet I would.

I definately disagree with this idea.

[Manic Smile]

having more options would not be a bad thing though...for all that you dont' like the idea of not knowing if that person is focused on piercing vs. cold or whatever I think that would be a nice detail

[SirJackassIII]

Not good for PvP, as they can't tell what armor type they're wearing and not good for PvE since people with 15k armors can just throw them away and replace them with more aesthetic armor instead of usefulness.
The amount of Warriors with man-bras(1.5 glads) would reduce drastically though...

But /not signed

[007Bistromath]

Originally Posted by PieXags

I didn't say it matters because I THOUGHT it mattered, I'm saying it's useful to know what sort of armor someone's got in PvP because it IS.

No, it really isn't. In all of the cases you mention, this neat little detail still doesn't truly affect your strategy. You can say it does all you want, and I honestly know how you feel, because even if it hasn't yet, you've always got that little worry in the back of your head that maybe it could, but it doesn't now and never will unless the differences between the stats of the armor sets gets much more significant. You cannot change what is in your skill bar during a match, so you can't stop doing cold and start doing fire instead, assuming it were even an issue, which it is not, because 15 armor is a silly little number. It very seldom even affects the order you attack people in, because their class and skills continue to be much larger factors. If it's a ranger, you shouldn't attack that anyway, because its armor is too high with or without a boost against your element. If it's an elementalist, you should still attack that anyway, because it's still the softest target (barring monk or mesmer) with or without a boost against your element. If it's a monk, whether you attack it or not is still determined by whether it's using Protective Spirit or whatever else might hose you, and who cares if it has Censor's? Furthermore, you continue to ignore the fact that many people take several different sets, both for this very purpose as well as for aesthetic value. If you are letting these differences change your strategy, then I say you are looking at the wrong numbers, because there are much bigger ones you need to worry about.

What would happen if they changed it? Would every single person in PvE magically get to choose the stats of the armor they worked for and bought already?

Ah, now I see your problem. Still though, no problem. Allow appearance to be changed at will, and stats (only the mods, since the base armor is the expensive part) to be changed by buying a dirt cheap rune or similar item at an armor crafter. Fixed!